863 Comments

  1. Source material is certainly a factor to consider. I enjoy film and see a fair amount of indie, historical, and international movies. I was watching one in a movie theater recently that helped me understand that I am not going to obsess over 1080p so much until prices come down further. A fair number of movies and television shows have been shot not on 35mm but Super 16, even recent ones (Leaving Las Vegas, The O.C., a lot of BBC content), and even when 35mm is used it can often be high ISO film where you never actually approach the resolution limits of the format. What I’m getting at is that there are an awful lot of movies out there that are grainy as heck when you take a good look at them, and I’m not really sure if going above 720p will improve detail with that kind of content regardless of the viewing distance. This isn’t a bad thing, because I think it’s going to save me some money. Between 720 HDTV and the nature of most films throughout history, 720 should be fine, for me anyway, for now, or at least until I get richer. (Of course, if you’re primarily into watching technologically sophisticated Hollywood presentations, tack-sharp well-lit 35mm or 70mm films, then the shortcomings of 720p may become apparent at a home theater distance.)

    Thanks for this site. I’m going to look around a little more.

  2. Need help with deciding if I should get a 1080p or stay with my 720p. I purchased a samsung 46″ DLP wiht 720p. I now hear that I should have purchased a 50″ samsung 1080p instead. Ok- so here it is. I sit 10 feet from the TV. should I stay with my 46″ DLP at 720p or upgrade to the 50″ DLP at 1080p. Will I see the difference?

  3. ^ hey Kman,
    I am in the same predicament.
    I purchased a week ago Samsung LCD 40in 720p/1080i. Contrast 4000:1
    and am wondering if I should fork out an extra 500 bucks for 1080 P Contrast 6000:1 I sit about 7 to 9 ft from tv.
    Will the rerendering in 1080p really make that big a difference or is it overkill since everything is brodcast in 720/1080i. better contrast I figure is better but how much better My Blacks are pretty good already. and could the image actually suffer in the rerendering it in 1080p.
    the rest of the tv is basically the same 8 ms refeesh same connections ect, Someone help us make up our minds Please

  4. oh to add to the above mine is 1 million pixels 32 billion colors.
    the other one is 2 million pixels but same 32 billion colors more pixels ok better image but will I really notice the difference or not.

  5. Id think so in a 50 inch but 40in I’m more of thinking keeping what I have already

  6. Hi, I’m considering buying a 46in lcd. I’ll be sitting approximately 12 1/2 feet away. Do you think I would benefit from a 1080 or 720. I’m looking at samsung and sharp. Thanks!!

  7. Well, I went down to Tweeter last night and the guy that worked with me was pretty good. He put the 46″ samsung 720p DLP next to the 50″ samsung 1080p DLP and you could see the difference. The 1080p compared to the 720p was very visiable. The 1080p was a lot smoother and less pix showed up. So there is a big difference between the 1080 at 50″ and the 720 at 46″ sitting 10 feet away, You can see the difference and the 50″ 1080 is the way to go.

  8. Gregg, Take a look at the web site hdguru. They have a seat chart that will tell you if viewing form that distance (12.5 feet) is worth going with either the 720 or 1080. What I found out was that 1080p viewing from 10 -12 feet looks so much better than 720p, but that was viewing a 46″ & 50″ DLP, I’m sure that LCD would be the same..

  9. well Now I wonder, I watched Hockey in HD and there was quite a bit of pixelation & Blurr, I would like to know if the 1080P would help in this case are is it just the LCD thing that
    we have to get used to. I watched some other programs which were great but if it helps in clearing up the picture It might warrent going up to the 1080p model. Someone help please1

  10. Gordon,
    I’m not an expert but if I remember correctly LCD displays aren’t as good for fast-moving images.

    If I don’t remember correctly, then I’m sure someone will correct me. 🙂

    I recently picked up a 46″ 720p Samsung DLP and I love it. Since I sit about 13′ away from the tv, I didn’t think it would be worth the extra expense to go 1080.

  11. Kman: The number given at HDGuru appear to give the exact results as those in my Home Theater Calculator spreadsheet, on which the chats on this page are based. So, there is no difference between the recommended seating distances.

  12. Gordon, I also have the 46″ samsung DLP, and wasnt to happy with the picture,so I went to tweeter and put the samsung 1080 next to the one I bought, and I found out that the 1080 had a better picture because the pixs were smaller and the picture looked clearer. I know one thing, If I never went back and compared the two, I probaboy would have felt that the 720 was good enough, but for an extra $600, it was worth it, because this TV will last a long time compared to the Plasma or LCD. Also I paid $1175 for my 46″ 720 and the 50″ 1080 is going for $1775

  13. I think I understand the technical premises of the study. I have no problems with it as a statement of the ultimate limits of visible resolution. Although, I would think it assumes 20-20 vision over the viewing distances.

    A practical observation .. I recently visited a local TV retailer to see a 1080P set. The salesman told me I was watching satellite TV. Macroblocks extended over several rows and columns of pixels and that’s what tended to dilute the picture resolution.

    They had no HD disk source for me to view so I don’t how the new HD players would look and I’m not really interested in the resoultion of synthesized game video.

    — CHAS

  14. Hi Carlton,

    You write: “the the most important aspects of picture quality are (in order): 1) contrast ratio, 2) color saturation, 3) color accuracy, 4) resolution.”

    can you give any reference to this statement?

  15. CHAS: Yes it does assume 20/20 vision; it’s based on the ability of the human eye to resolve detail to the level of 1/60th of a degree of an arc. My home theater calculator spreadsheet gives some more detail on this in the footnotes.

  16. Excellent chart, but I have two questions:
    Hard to understand at what point in the wedge (the Benefit of XXXp starts . . .) the benefit becomes significant. I understand that beauty, or in this case, detail, is in the eye of the beholder, but there ought to be a line on the wedge that approimates the significant benefit from the insignificant.
    The one reason I’m leaning towards LCD versus plasma is there will be a fair amount of light in the room where the TV will go. Does that have any impact on the benefits listed on the chart?

  17. Ned: the benefit of a higher resolution starts as soon as you enter “the wedge” between each resolution line. The more into “the wedge” you are, the more benefit there is. So, at 50% of the way between 720p and 1080p, you would see about 50% of the benefit of 1080p over 720p. It’s continuously variable and steadily increases as you move between one resolution line and another; there is no special point in between.

    Ambient light has no significant impact on resolution, but it does on contrast ratio. The this post regarding contrast ratio: The Truth About Inflated HDTV Contrast Ratios

  18. Gordon, Oz is correct. LCD can be prone to artifacts for fast motion. You need to figure out if this is source material or your LCD panel causing the pixelation. In either case, 1080p resolution won’t eliminate it. Check the specs of your panel and see what the refresh rate is for the pixels. If it is ~10ms or higher, your panel might be causing the problem. If not, you’d have to find an alternative pristine HD source to test (i.e. HD-DVD). If that looks great, it is the broadcast material with the issues. If it has the same problem, it’s your display.

  19. At the same viewing distance, a larger screen will always reveal more detail than a smaller screen.

  20. Wow people are already talking about 5,761p, calm down people. What are you ever going to use this with, as of right now you cant view any tv over 720p or 1080i, and 1080p movies are rare. By the time they come out with a all these crazy 5millionp’s, 720p and 1080i will be the standard for tv, 1080p will be the standard for movies

  21. I have a Mitsubishi 46″ 1080p LCD. You can see the difference between a 720p set and a 1080p set…the picture on a 1080p set is just “smoother”…that’s the best way I can describe it. On my set, 1080i programming gets properly deinterlaced to 1080p…it’s breathtaking, even from 10+ feet away.

  22. Hello, Quick question. Im considering purchase of Pioneer PDP5070HD. I know that t.v is 720p I sit approx 14.5′ away from T.V Should i bite the bullet and go for the Pioneer PROFHD1 full 1080p set, or will the PDP5070HD be good for my distance. I can save myself about $4,000 or wait over a year for a price drop in 1080p plasmas

  23. To add to the mix:

    I was just at the local TV shop and we did a 3 way comparison. The new Samsung 52″ 1080P LCD, Sony 52″ 1080P LCD and the Pioneer ProFHD1. They played the same content SD content on all 3 and the Pioneer blows them away. The picture was so much smoother than the other 2. I had my heart set on the new Sony LCD but Pioneer just had them beat hands down.

    So my dilema, I really want the 1080P but 50″ is a bit too small for our living room. I wanted to check out the Panasonic 65″ 1080P but the salesman say to stay away from that since it does not match up to the Pioneer 61″ 720P. Now we sit 13′ away so I am torn between getting the Pioneer ProFHD1 at 1080P or get the Pioneer 61″ 720P. Does anyone know when Pioneer will come out with a 60″+ 1080P plasma?

    Thanks,
    Rick

  24. Bski: Sitting that far away, I’d definitely recommend the 720p Plasma. Buy it now, use for a year or two, sell it for a price close to what you purchased it for, then buy a bigger next-gen 1080p plasma for the current price of the Pioneer PRO-FHD1. Unless you have a lot of spare change, I’d not recommend the Pioneer 1080p plasma because it is not a great value for the $, especially with new models on the horizon.

    Rick: You can read about the upcoming Pioneer plasmas here and the new Panasonic plasmas here. I think June 2007 is the time frame. Having said that, if having a Plasma calibrated by an ISF-certified technician will make a huge difference; the picture quality of either display would be better than the as-calibrated display in the store. If you want to purchase now, consider the Panasoinc TH-65PF9UK (65″ 1080p – owners thread link.)

  25. I just need a little advice on which TV I should settle on. I have reduced my choices to the Mitsubishi WD-57731 57″ 1080p DLP TV and the Samsung HL-S5687W 56″ 1080p DLP TV. The Samsung boasts about its 10,000:1 contrast ratio, which made it an early front runner, but the plush1080p the Mitsubishi has drawn my attention. Does their plush1080p really work or is it just a ploy to get you to buy the TV? If anyone could give me any advice on the better of the two, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Chris

  26. Chris: There are a ton of opinions out there. The best thing to do is to look at them with your own eyes and weigh the features. I’d recommend taking an hour and reading about both of these displays over at AVSforum.com in the rear projection display area. For rear projection DLP, the feature I’d be looking for is LED lighting as opposed to the standard bulb (because of wider color spectrum, faster turn-on, and longer life.)

  27. Great post Carlton, and great discussion. It appears my 92″ screen and 12′ seating distance will benefit from a 1080p projector. Still, I hesitate to spend the money due to a lack of 1080p content, especially CATV content. I have a couple of questions about HD CATV viewing on a 1080p projector. Some TV stations broadcast in 720p and some in 1080i. I presume a 1080p projector will de-interlace a 1080i signal, (i.e., convert it to 1080p) but will that 1080i signal benefit significantly from the de-interlacing? Will it look almost as good as a 1080p source? Also, will it look significantly better on a 1080p projector than on a 720p projector?

    How much better will a 720p source look on a 1080p projector,(if at all)? Will the 1080i channels look significantly better than the 720p channels on a 1080p projector/display, and will this be an incentive for the 720p channels to move to 1080i? Finally, will there be any move to 1080p broadcasting any time soon?

    Thanks and congratulations on a great website.

    Craig

  28. Craig: All digital displays show images as progressive, so it is very important to have a great deinterlacer in your projector. For film sources (originally recorded at 24 fps), a deinterlacer with 3:2 pull-down can perfectly reproduce the original content. For 1080i video, deinterlacers can do a great job as well. So, in short, yes you will benefit from the increased resolution. As far a watching 720p content on a 1080p display, the benefits are less but there are some. Since 1080i is more common that 720p, it seems like a logical upgrade for you at some point. Enjoy!

  29. I was just wondering, if your eye could go up to 1/60th of a degree…

    Suppose the TV would be ‘too’ sharp, so the light of 4 pixels would fall into this 1/60th degree.
    Wouldn’t this be interpreted by your eye as the average of the lightoutput of the 4 pixels, basicly functioning as a sort of filter / antialiasing ?

    So – if you’re not too ridiculously far away – even if the resolution of the tv was higher than your eye could see, it still would be an improvement, right ?

  30. L.Denninger: I think your point is clearly valid for images that are created/rendered as anti-aliased (computer text, video games, etc.) However, for video sources, there is no anti-aliasing and I don’t think sub-pixel (pixels that are not clearly visible) contribution would be nearly as beneficial. Really, it depends on the content of the sub-pixels. If there is one that is white and the other three are black, the white pixel would clearly stand out (as pointed out in a comment above.) But most video content is gradients, and that subtle sub-pixel differentiation would probably be lost completely.

  31. An excellent blog.

    I want it all. Watch TV, play DVDs, do all of my computing, plug in my x-box. What I don’t want is to put my sofa on rails to move closer to and further from the source – I am about 13′ away right now. The room can have a fair bit of ambient light.

    So what I can distill from the excellent article, plus the posts, is that:

    1. for TV, if your source is largely SD, you are wasting your time although if you’re able to “upgrade” the signal, you will see some benefits. Ideally, get HD (720p) programming, which will look good on a 720 or 1080 monitor.

    2. for DVDs, the story is similar to SD TV – best to get BR/HD DVD, although again some benefit from the “upgrading” done by the TV or DVD player (some upgrade to 1080i or better). Note to self – get a BR/HD DVD combo “jukebox” style DVD player – if it exists I will buy it. So without lots of BR/HD content, I’m as well off with 720 as with 1080 TVs.

    3. for comupting, I want the highest resolution possible, which points to 1080p. My real worry is not seeing the detail in a document or spreadsheet – who want to squint looking at blogs. My read is that 1080 gets you the detail, but you had better sit close to be able to get that detail. Or else you are squinting…

    4. for xbox 360 – it’s all good.

    At the end of the day, I think it breaks down with the viewing distance: 6-9″ to view a 50″ screen is impractical in my house set-up. Probably need to go to a projector and a screen… and a new wife.

    Correct me if I’m wrong.

  32. Canuc: I think you’ve summarized very well. The only addendum I have is for point #3. I’d recommend running at the native resolution of the panel and either increasing the OS font size (makes just text bigger) or increasing the DPI setting (makes both the text and icons/graphics bigger.) The advantage of doing this is that everything is a readable size and the renderings get the full benefit of the resolution. And if you go to play a video, it can be a native screen resolution.

  33. I think a beneficial twist on these charts would be to show what the closest you could be before the limitations of the resolution would be apparent. Then, if you have static seating positions, and the resolution of what you watch varies, you could determine the optimum seating distance be for all resolutions even though it not be the optimum for any one resolution.

    Great charts Carlton – Thanks!

  34. Help, please! I want a TV that is viewable from 12′-15′. It will be hooked to cable TV. It needs to be no deeper than about 12″ (to sit on table) or, ideally, thin enough to be mounted on the wall (above the table). It will be used for general TV and DVD viewing. Price is important … what type and size can I get to meet these specs at the lowest price point? In advance, many thanks.

  35. how about progressive scan dvd players? Ive been told the can make regular dvds look better by displaying in 480p as opposed to 480i (given that u have a tv caple of accepting the signal). Ive also been told that it isnt worth it to get a high definiton dvd player because you cant really see the difference compared to a progressive dvd players. Any info or help would be appreciated.

  36. Jason: A progressive scan DVD player will only eliminate de-interlacing artifacts. If your have a HDTV with a built-in de-interlacer, there is zero advantage to getting a progressive scan (de-interlacing) DVD player. If you have a standard def TV, there is no advantage to HD-DVD. But, if you have a HDTV, there is HUGE advantage. You can easily and immediately spot the advantages of HD-DVD. The only reasons not to buy a HD-DVD player are cost and movie availability.

  37. I am buying a 46inch LCD TV. I will be viewing from approximately 9 – 10 feet away most of the time. I have HD Dish Receive and PS3. What should I get, 720P or 1080P.

    Thanks.

    Carl

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